Dean Murray: So I’m interviewing Behla Hutchinson today. Hello.
Behla : Hello.
Dean Murray: So I wanted to ask you a few questions about your songwriting. First of all, as a creative person, what was it that particularly attracted you to songwriting?
Behla : I’m trying to think when I first, I guess the first time I wrote a song was … Well, I write songs as poems first so it’s a lot to do with the lyrics. So for me it’s, if I’m like overthinking something, usually if something’s upsetting me or bothering me or yeah, something’s like mulling over a lot and I tend to write, I lie in bed and then won’t be able to sleep. So, and then will maybe get like a lyric or just a line in my head and then I’ll just start writing like that. Sometimes a whole song comes out, but sometimes I’ll stop and then go back to it.
Dean Murray: So do you find that a way of getting those, sort of exercising those emotions and getting them, expressing them so-
Behla : Yeah, definitely.
Dean Murray: That they’re not in your head?
Behla : A lot to do with expression I think. Yeah. And just sort of, yeah, it’s like documenting it almost to, so you can like move on from it or something like that.
Dean Murray: Oh, that’s really interesting. Yeah. Right, right. So once it’s on the page, it’s not such a pressing issue for you anymore?
Yeah, I think so. Also just some times that it might be to sort of remember, like have it, remember a memory or a certain situation that’s happened and you sort of want to, yeah, I guess. You know how you take a photo of something that you’re looking at, whether it be beautiful or a significant place. It’s sort of a bit like that.
Dean Murray: So you’re sort of documenting things as well?
Belha : Yeah.
Dean Murray: That’s really interesting. You mostly perform solo.
Behla : Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Dean Murray: But you were telling me that you also perform, you have performed with other musicians as well. So what do you think are the benefits of both of those ways of performing? I don’t know whether you’ve written with the other musicians as well or not?
Behla : I guess I’ve written all the songs, but then the arrangements of them, yeah, that’s definitely been like a collective process. Sometimes, I don’t know, little things change in them or, little bits are added.
Dean Murray: So which do you prefer? Let’s see?
Behla : I think I prefer playing with people.
Dean Murray: Right.
Behla : Yeah. There’s something really special about sharing that sort of … Yeah, it’s quite intimate I guess. Sort of when you can sing songs with people and they know what they’re about as well and it’s just enjoyable. Yeah. Singing harmonies and I think it’s a lot less scary as well if you’re on stage, or performing, if you’ve got people with you. Then it feels like you’re sort of … Yeah, they’re in it together.
Dean Murray: You do a lot of solo performing as well. So what was it about, how did you end up doing that rather than being more in a band?
Behla : I was in a band and then that sort of, due to different people’s time restrictions and things like that, that sort of fizzled out. Then I just felt a bit like … I’d never played by myself at that point. So it was a bit of a, I guess a test to see if I could do it. I didn’t really particularly like performing almost as like by myself. I don’t like the attention I don’t think. I enjoy singing and people listening. But it’s the sort of bit after a gig that’s like my least favourite moment when everyone’s like, “Well done.” Because I find that moment just like oh, a bit weird. But then there is something about singing by yourself when you feel like you’re almost having a conversation or, I know that sounds silly cause the audience generally don’t speak, but just something about people actually actively listening to what you’re saying.
Dean Murray: Oh that’s interesting. That’s sounds quite a complex relationship with the audience or something. Because you’re putting yourself in that position of being in the centre of attention I guess, but then also not liking.
Behla : I think also because I much prefer smaller gigs and more, like when it’s more personal. So I like being able to look at people when I’m playing, look at different people in the audience. Whereas if there’s a lot of people or it’s dark or … That’s when I feel like I’m more nervous sometimes. Whereas if it’s like a small room and everyone’s looking at you and you can see them, then I feel like that relaxes me sometimes more.
Dean Murray: Is that to do with being able to see people’s reactions?
Behla : Yeah, maybe. Maybe
Dean Murray: So that you can tell whether they’re enjoying it or not?
I don’t know. I think sometimes it’s just because it feels like more of a two-way situation if you can sing something and then you see someone smile or you see some, yeah, there’s like you can see the cues. Whereas if it’s just a room, it just feels less like a two-way situation. Yeah.
Dean Murray: Yeah. So you mean, because I suppose, yeah, if you are having a conversation with someone, you want to be able to see how the other person’s reacting. Yeah. So you were talking to me earlier about your early experiences of being introduced to music at school. It sounds like you’ve got quite an amazing musical education really, so would you like to tell us a bit about that?
Behla : Yeah, so my first teacher was Mrs. Carpenter. Yeah. She, so the register in my school was sung. So she’d sing your name and then you’d sing back. Yes, Mrs. Carpenter and the, it was always in a different melody and she’d make it really simple when you first started, but if you could follow the melody then she’d make it more and more complex. Then the whole school was in the choir. I went into quite a little school because I was in the countryside. So there was 26 of us when I started and 64 when I left. But everyone was in the choir. Yeah. We used to record school musicals for other schools so they could sing the songs, like to learn the songs. So there was a lot of harmony and just collective singing, like singing in a big group, so itself was just part of what we did.
Dean Murray: Yeah, it sounds quite idyllic in many ways. But how do you feel that prepared you to be the musician you are now?
I think it’s just, yeah, it gives you a sense of, I don’t know, like comfort with your voice. We weren’t trained professionally. I’ve never done any singing lessons or things like that. So I think it’s, yeah, it sort of gives everyone an individual voice in a collective. So I think it’s not to do with making everyone sound the same, but not really minding about the diverse nature of different people’s voices, that they do sound different than that’s okay.
Dean Murray: So was there any kind of music theory involved in that? Or was it purely a creative and performative exercise?
Behla : Yeah, it was just, there was no theory. It was just like caller and response, I guess. So she’d sing something and then we’d sing it back, things like that. And I’d sing at home with, my dad plays guitar and sings. He likes singing. So we used to sing, my sisters and my dad. Yeah, just the family.
Dean Murray: So it was a nice family band?
Behla : Yeah.
Dean Murray: Yeah. So when did you, you started off doing that, but when did you switch from doing that to thinking, “Well, I want to write those songs. I want to be the person who’s the artist in this situation.”
Behla : So I started playing guitar when I was 16-ish. I had a back operation. I couldn’t, I had a lung deflated and I used to play clarinet before that. But then for some reason around that time, my dad brought me his guitar into hospital. So I started playing that a bit in hospital to keep myself occupied.
Dean Murray: Right. Yeah.
Behla : Then I think it was just a lot of friends. It’s a small sociable thing to do. We’d teach each other songs and play in an evening together and things like that. I think it was just sort of a natural progression from there probably, just playing other people’s songs and then thinking, “I’ll try and write some songs.”
Dean Murray: Yeah, sort of thing. “I could do that.”
Behla : Yeah. Hang on a second.
Dean Murray: Yeah, it’s interesting. Were there any artists you were listening to the time that you were thinking, “Oh, they’re great.I really wish I could be, I could do what they are doing.”, or they inspired you in that way?
Behla : Yeah, lots. I listened to a lot of music. We didn’t have a TV growing up so we listened to a lot of music. I loved Otis Redding and I wish I could sing like him. But, not quite yet. And then, just lots of, I think a lot of it was like people who, I really enjoyed lyrics. Yeah, I enjoyed the poetry and the sort of, like when you’re describing one thing, but you’re talking about another thing and all that. So I think, I’m trying to think of some of the people I, so I’ve listened to Nick Drake and people like that. Just quite sort of, yeah. Sort of folky-ish music. That sort of inspired me I think.
Dean Murray: That’s interesting that sort of you got into music by, I suppose by listening as a family? Where you all listening together?
Behla : I mean, my Mom and Dad have got … There’s some overlap, but they both have quite different like music. Yeah. Musics.
Dean Murray: Really? Because that’s interesting. So I guess a lot of people were sitting there as they get into music, listening to their own stuff in their bedroom that they found. But that’s a really nice experience if it comes from sort the whole family.
Behla : Yeah. Earlier and then I mean, yeah definitely listened to music sort of with friends and things like that, like Radiohead and I don’t know. Yeah. Lots of bands that sort of … Yeah. More as like individual listening but I shared a room for most of my life.
Dean Murray: So can you remember the first song you ever wrote?
Behla Yeah, the first song I wrote, well by myself, was To The Sea.
Dean Murray: Okay. Is that one you still perform?
Behla : Yeah.
Dean Murray: Oh right. That’s brilliant. Yeah. Because most people I suppose would look back on their first song and go, “Oh that was like a stepping stone in the journey.” But it’s interesting that that song that you wrote is still-
Behla : It’s the title of my first album.
Dean Murray: Right? Right. Yeah.
Behla : I really enjoy playing that.
Dean Murray: Yeah, that’s really interesting.
Behla : I probably wrote like silly songs with my sister. We used to, we had like a little tape recorder and we used to make up songs and read poems out in different accents and stuff like that. So I think there’s probably some silly songs. Yeah, I wrote a song with two friends when we were, I’m trying to think, maybe 17, 18 but then that was the first one that I sort of wrote. Yeah.
Dean Murray: Yeah, yeah. So obviously you’ve been doing this for some time now. So you’re still playing the first song you wrote, but what’s, how do you feel the progression in your other songwriting has gone?
It’s not like a massive leap I wouldn’t say. It’s still quite similar in the way that, I think because of the process is the same, generally. So they start as poems and then there’s a melody and then I make chords around the melody. So I know that’s opposite to the way quite often people write songs. They’ll come up with chords and then a melody and then lyrics. So I guess, yeah, there’s sort of, I think within the things I’m talking about, obviously I experienced more things. So there’s probably more of that in them. But I think through playing with other people, being more aware of different types of music. I did Indian classical on western instruments for a while and just learning different things about different music. I don’t think it’s sort of really obvious or something like that in my music. But I think it must influence you somewhere just by learning that.
Dean Murray: It’s funny, I was thinking things go into your brain without you realising them and you start to regurgitate things that you’ve learned without consciously thinking, “I must put this into the songs or something.”
Behla : Yeah.
Dean Murray: But so, what … I mean anything, classical music has got some very interesting techniques in it doesn’t it?
Behla : Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Dean Murray: What did you find? What interesting techniques did you learn from that?
Behla : So I did it with singing, but it was around lots of other people playing different instruments. I think it’s just really interesting, like the movement. So there’s, in different rags there’s quite different sort of patterns. So it’s not just a scale up and down. It’s a different way up to what is down.
Dean Murray: Yeah.
Behla : And the sort of, yeah, I just found that quite interesting and a lot of the music that, the way they learn it is through listening and repeating. I find that really, I find that much more easy way to learn. I can’t really sight read at all. I don’t think I can read music anymore like did when I played clarinet. But yes, I find, I found that an enjoyable way to do it, to learn more things.
Dean Murray: Yeah. So is it indeed classical music? It’s not written down.
Behla : I don’t know actually. I mean it’s because they often say it. So they’ll say the, like each note has got a word-
Dean Murray: Right.
Behla : In the scale and then the rhythms, that’s all said rather than-
Dean Murray: Right. Okay.
Behla : So that’s, yeah.
Dean Murray: Of course they use different scales don’t they to what we use here.?
Behla : Yeah.
Dean Murray: So do you find your voice going into those scales when you’re singing or writing?
Behla : I don’t know. I’m not sure. I still, because we learned some of this of, I guess more like folk songs and I like singing those and sometimes just do it as a warming-up exercise or things like that. I probably learn a bit more technique through some of that stuff because it’s a lot about holding notes and making them really clean and yeah.
Dean Murray: Yeah.
Behla : So they said like imagine you pulling out a piece of string. The note has got to be the same all the way-
Dean Murray: Right.
Behla : Until the end. And you’ve got to hit it in the same place as you end it. I quite like those things cause I think my voice isn’t a very showy voice. So I like that. Yeah. Just trying to focus on the sound.
Dean Murray: Yeah. That’s interesting. I mean like a visual metaphor of what you are doing with your voice. Yeah. So you were talking to me earlier about an interesting idea for a live performance. So I don’t know, maybe you’d like to just explain that again?
Behla Yeah. So it was, I’d really like to do a gig in the dark. Yeah. Sort of as an idea to have three acts or something like that, that were all different genres of music and not tell people what they coming to listen to you. So don’t promote the bands or the acts on a poster. So it just be a surprise gig. I guess a bit like So Far Sounds or things like that. You don’t know until you’re there. Because I just think a lot of stuff nowadays, you listen to the radio and it’s, a lot of the music’s very similar and it’s quite hard sometimes to, I guess find different things that you wouldn’t usually listen to. That seems the opposite of what you’re sort of told. But then if you go on Spotify or YouTube it tells you artists that are similar. I think there’s something special about listening to things that you haven’t listened to before and that you might hate and though that that’s quite good to listen to something that you’re like, “Ugh.”
Dean Murray: Yeah, you’re kind of giving it … It’s sort of a blank canvas in a way because you don’t have the visual aspects of [inaudible 00:16:30]
Behla : Yeah. I think it’d just be interesting to, for a bunch of people. I’d love to be in the audience. I’d play it.
Dean Murray: So you were saying you have this kind of slightly uncomfortable at times, relationship with the audience. So how do you think that feeds into the idea of performing in the dark?
Behla : I think it would be pretty relaxed but then I don’t know, because you actually wouldn’t be able to see anything. But I think-
Dean Murray: But for you personally as a performer, how do you think, do you think that comes from, from that sort of ambivalent feeling about being on stage ?
Behla: Maybe. Yeah. It’d almost feel like it was just you playing. I don’t know. I don’t know how it would feel, but yeah, that might be quite nice just to almost play and not … Just think about the sound rather than whether anyone else is enjoying it or what they’re, how they’re receiving it?
Dean Murray: It’s an interesting idea because we were talking about sort of intimate gigs and intimate experiences performing and in a way that, what you’re describing is something that’s very, is almost, is incredibly intimate because as an audience, you can’t even look at the other people, see how, what they think.
Behla : Yeah.
Dean Murray: So that’s, yeah.
Behla : Yeah. Because you go off a lot of cues when you listen to something. You’ll see what other people are … If they’re enjoying it, then you tend to enjoy it more. If you’re at a gig and everyone looks like, you know, “Oh God, this is terrible.” Then you generally, even if you’re like, oh, but you start off thinking this is good, then you’ll find things to not enjoy about it. Yes.
Dean Murray: Yeah. Yeah. It takes away that sort of group response that you have doesn’t it?
Behla : Yeah.
Dean Murray: Well, it’s a very interesting idea. I hope you put that on there. I would like to come. Well, yes. Well, thank you very much for talking to me Behla.
Behla : It’s a pleasure.
Dean Murray: Yeah. Hope to be hearing more from you soon.
Behla : This song is called Eyes That Want. (Music) And this is called The River. (Music)